Scientific socialism - Revision history

SludgeyRevolution: added see also section

2023-03-18T03:32:32Z

added see also section

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	Utopian socialists failed because as much as they rejected capitalism on moral grounds, they did not understand the underlying mechanics that drove it and made it the dominant mode of production in society. They did not understand Marxism and its three components which form scientific socialism.		Utopian socialists failed because as much as they rejected capitalism on moral grounds, they did not understand the underlying mechanics that drove it and made it the dominant mode of production in society. They did not understand Marxism and its three components which form scientific socialism.

			==See Also==
			*[[Dialectical materialism]]

	== References ==		== References ==
	<references />		<references />
	[[Category:Marxism]]		[[Category:Marxism]]

TDM: /* Utopian socialism */

2022-12-24T23:26:43Z

Utopian socialism

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	==== Class struggle ====		==== Class struggle ====
	The third fundamental component of ~~marxism~~ is the '''class struggle'''. Studying from the last days of feudalism and its eventual replacement by capitalism, Marx understood which social forces are responsible for change and why. The bourgeoisie was ''progressive'' compared to the feudal lords and monarchs.		The third fundamental component of Marxism is the '''class struggle'''. Studying from the last days of feudalism and its eventual replacement by capitalism, Marx understood which social forces are responsible for change and why. The bourgeoisie was ''progressive'' compared to the feudal lords and monarchs.

	Why did the bourgeoisie enter in conflict against the nobility? Because the two were contradictions, and one was prevented from growing as long as the other existed. The bourgeois waged wars on the aristocracy to establish themselves as the dominant social class (see for example the [[French Revolution of 1789]]), as the nobility would never have willingly given up their power because it was not in their ''class interest''. Lenin concludes:<blockquote>Marx’s philosophical materialism alone has shown the proletariat the way out of the spiritual slavery in which all oppressed classes have hitherto languished. Marx’s economic theory alone has explained the true position of the proletariat in the general system of capitalism.<ref name=":0" /></blockquote>According to Lenin, it is necessary for the proletariat to understand the philosophical and economical theories of Marxism to understand the class struggle and their place in it.		Why did the bourgeoisie enter in conflict against the nobility? Because the two were contradictions, and one was prevented from growing as long as the other existed. The bourgeois waged wars on the aristocracy to establish themselves as the dominant social class (see for example the [[French Revolution of 1789]]), as the nobility would never have willingly given up their power because it was not in their ''class interest''. Lenin concludes:<blockquote>Marx’s philosophical materialism alone has shown the proletariat the way out of the spiritual slavery in which all oppressed classes have hitherto languished. Marx’s economic theory alone has explained the true position of the proletariat in the general system of capitalism.<ref name=":0" /></blockquote>According to Lenin, it is necessary for the proletariat to understand the philosophical and economical theories of Marxism to understand the class struggle and their place in it.
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	Moreover, as materialism is ultimately the scientific conception of the world, and Marxism is the application of materialism to the class struggle, the two become inseparable: there can not exist any socialism without science.		Moreover, as materialism is ultimately the scientific conception of the world, and Marxism is the application of materialism to the class struggle, the two become inseparable: there can not exist any socialism without science.

	Much like a scientific experiment, ~~mMrxism~~ allows one to declare hypotheses and test them out. Marxism as a philosophy evolves with the people who practice it, and does not stay rigid (and therefore becomes irrelevant). For example, while [[kulaks]] were an oppressive class in Tsarist Russia, they were not strictly [[Social class\|bourgeois or proletarian]]. Likewise, there wasn't really a [[proletariat]] in 1900s Russia, as much of the population worked as peasants (serfdom was only abolished in 1861). Understanding these social classes and their revolutionary potential (their interests and where they placed on the class struggle) was instrumental in establishing socialism in Russia.		Much like a scientific experiment, Marxism allows one to declare hypotheses and test them out. Marxism as a philosophy evolves with the people who practice it, and does not stay rigid (and therefore becomes irrelevant). For example, while [[kulaks]] were an oppressive class in Tsarist Russia, they were not strictly [[Social class\|bourgeois or proletarian]]. Likewise, there wasn't really a [[proletariat]] in 1900s Russia, as much of the population worked as peasants (serfdom was only abolished in 1861). Understanding these social classes and their revolutionary potential (their interests and where they placed on the class struggle) was instrumental in establishing socialism in Russia.

	The components of Marxism, coupled with this scientific approach, form scientific socialism: a guiding principle for socialist societies.		The components of Marxism, coupled with this scientific approach, form scientific socialism: a guiding principle for socialist societies.
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	They tested these ideas and found that they did not work, but put the blame on the workers themselves or, as they were idealists, on God: if they are not able to change the world with their ideas, then it must be because the world is not yet ready for them, and so it must be God (which can be understood as the universe) that prevents their ideas from flourishing.		They tested these ideas and found that they did not work, but put the blame on the workers themselves or, as they were idealists, on God: if they are not able to change the world with their ideas, then it must be because the world is not yet ready for them, and so it must be God (which can be understood as the universe) that prevents their ideas from flourishing.

	Utopian socialists failed because as much as they rejected capitalism on moral grounds, they did not understand the underlying mechanics that drove it and made it the dominant mode of production in society. They did not understand ~~marxism~~ and its three components which form scientific socialism.		Utopian socialists failed because as much as they rejected capitalism on moral grounds, they did not understand the underlying mechanics that drove it and made it the dominant mode of production in society. They did not understand Marxism and its three components which form scientific socialism.

	== References ==		== References ==
	<references />		<references />
	[[Category:Marxism]]		[[Category:Marxism]]

TDM at 23:20, 24 December 2022

2022-12-24T23:20:04Z

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	'''Scientific socialism''', a term popularized by [[Engels\|Friedrich Engels]] in the 1800s, refers to an application of [[socialism]] that is scientific in nature, and therefore follows the philosophy of [[~~marxism~~]] as science is inseparable from socialism, and socialism is inseparable from science. The phrase rose to prominence to distinguish from [[utopian socialism]], which has become a pejorative used to imply naïveté.		'''Scientific socialism''', a term popularized by [[Engels\|Friedrich Engels]] in the 1800s, refers to an application of [[socialism]] that is scientific in nature, and therefore follows the philosophy of [[Marxism]] as science is inseparable from socialism, and socialism is inseparable from science. The phrase rose to prominence to distinguish from [[utopian socialism]], which has become a pejorative used to imply naïveté.

	== Principles ==		== Principles ==
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	The third fundamental component of marxism is the '''class struggle'''. Studying from the last days of feudalism and its eventual replacement by capitalism, Marx understood which social forces are responsible for change and why. The bourgeoisie was ''progressive'' compared to the feudal lords and monarchs.		The third fundamental component of marxism is the '''class struggle'''. Studying from the last days of feudalism and its eventual replacement by capitalism, Marx understood which social forces are responsible for change and why. The bourgeoisie was ''progressive'' compared to the feudal lords and monarchs.

	Why did the bourgeoisie enter in conflict against the nobility? Because the two were contradictions, and one was prevented from growing as long as the other existed. The bourgeois waged wars on the aristocracy to establish themselves as the dominant social class (see for example the [[French Revolution of 1789]]), as the nobility would never have willingly given up their power because it was not in their ''class interest''. Lenin concludes:<blockquote>Marx’s philosophical materialism alone has shown the proletariat the way out of the spiritual slavery in which all oppressed classes have hitherto languished. Marx’s economic theory alone has explained the true position of the proletariat in the general system of capitalism.<ref name=":0" /></blockquote>According to Lenin, it is necessary for the proletariat to understand the philosophical and economical theories of ~~marxism~~ to understand the class struggle and their place in it.		Why did the bourgeoisie enter in conflict against the nobility? Because the two were contradictions, and one was prevented from growing as long as the other existed. The bourgeois waged wars on the aristocracy to establish themselves as the dominant social class (see for example the [[French Revolution of 1789]]), as the nobility would never have willingly given up their power because it was not in their ''class interest''. Lenin concludes:<blockquote>Marx’s philosophical materialism alone has shown the proletariat the way out of the spiritual slavery in which all oppressed classes have hitherto languished. Marx’s economic theory alone has explained the true position of the proletariat in the general system of capitalism.<ref name=":0" /></blockquote>According to Lenin, it is necessary for the proletariat to understand the philosophical and economical theories of Marxism to understand the class struggle and their place in it.

	=== Scientific approach ===		=== Scientific approach ===
	Scientific socialism is based on the principles of science. In this way, it is able to evolve with the times and adapt itself to the material conditions of any society.		Scientific socialism is based on the principles of science. In this way, it is able to evolve with the times and adapt itself to the material conditions of any society.

	Moreover, as materialism is ultimately the scientific conception of the world, and ~~marxism~~ is the application of materialism to the class struggle, the two become inseparable: there can not exist any socialism without science.		Moreover, as materialism is ultimately the scientific conception of the world, and Marxism is the application of materialism to the class struggle, the two become inseparable: there can not exist any socialism without science.

	Much like a scientific experiment, ~~marxism~~ allows one to declare hypotheses and test them out. Marxism as a philosophy evolves with the people who practice it, and does not stay rigid (and therefore becomes irrelevant). For example, while [[kulaks]] were an oppressive class in Tsarist Russia, they were not strictly [[Social class\|bourgeois or proletarian]]. Likewise, there wasn't really a [[proletariat]] in 1900s Russia, as much of the population worked as peasants (serfdom was only abolished in 1861). Understanding these social classes and their revolutionary potential (their interests and where they placed on the class struggle) was instrumental in establishing socialism in Russia.		Much like a scientific experiment, mMrxism allows one to declare hypotheses and test them out. Marxism as a philosophy evolves with the people who practice it, and does not stay rigid (and therefore becomes irrelevant). For example, while [[kulaks]] were an oppressive class in Tsarist Russia, they were not strictly [[Social class\|bourgeois or proletarian]]. Likewise, there wasn't really a [[proletariat]] in 1900s Russia, as much of the population worked as peasants (serfdom was only abolished in 1861). Understanding these social classes and their revolutionary potential (their interests and where they placed on the class struggle) was instrumental in establishing socialism in Russia.

	The components of ~~marxism~~, coupled with this scientific approach, form scientific socialism: a guiding principle for socialist societies.		The components of Marxism, coupled with this scientific approach, form scientific socialism: a guiding principle for socialist societies.

	== Utopian socialism ==		== Utopian socialism ==

CriticalResist: Reverted edits by Deogeo (talk) to last revision by CriticalResist

2022-09-05T19:28:21Z

Reverted edits by Deogeo (talk) to last revision by CriticalResist

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	::''~~These two great discoveries~~, ~~the~~ [[~~Historical Materialism~~\|~~materialistic conception~~ of ~~history~~]] and the ~~revelation~~ of ~~the secret of capitalistic production through~~ [[~~surplus-value~~]], ~~we owe to Marx. With these discoveries, Socialism became a~~ science.''		'''Scientific socialism''', a term popularized by [[Engels\|Friedrich Engels]] in the 1800s, refers to an application of [[socialism]] that is scientific in nature, and therefore follows the philosophy of [[marxism]] as science is inseparable from socialism, and socialism is inseparable from science. The phrase rose to prominence to distinguish from [[utopian socialism]], which has become a pejorative used to imply naïveté.
	~~::— Frederick Engels, "~~[[~~Library:Socialism:_utopian_and_scientific\|Socialism: Scientific and Utopian~~]]~~" 1880~~.
	== Principles ==		== Principles ==

Deogeo: better opening quote

2022-09-05T17:31:09Z

better opening quote

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	''~~'Scientific socialism'''~~, ~~a term popularized by~~ [[~~Engels~~\|~~Friedrich Engels~~]] in the ~~1800s, refers to an application~~ of ~~[[socialism]] that is scientific in nature, and therefore follows~~ the ~~philosophy~~ of [[~~marxism~~]] ~~as science is inseparable from socialism~~, ~~and socialism is inseparable from~~ science. ~~The phrase rose to prominence to distinguish from~~ [[~~utopian socialism~~]]~~, which has become a pejorative used to imply naïveté~~.		::''These two great discoveries, the [[Historical Materialism\|materialistic conception of history]] and the revelation of the secret of capitalistic production through [[surplus-value]], we owe to Marx. With these discoveries, Socialism became a science.''
			::— Frederick Engels, "[[Library:Socialism:_utopian_and_scientific\|Socialism: Scientific and Utopian]]" 1880.
	== Principles ==		== Principles ==

CriticalResist: fixed source, removed last sentence which did not fit on this article anymore.

2022-09-05T17:19:47Z

fixed source, removed last sentence which did not fit on this article anymore.

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	::

	::

	'''Scientific socialism''', a term popularized by [[Engels\|Friedrich Engels]] in the 1800s, refers to an application of [[socialism]] that is scientific in nature, and therefore follows the philosophy of [[marxism]] as science is inseparable from socialism, and socialism is inseparable from science. The phrase rose to prominence to distinguish from [[utopian socialism]], which has become a pejorative used to imply naïveté.		'''Scientific socialism''', a term popularized by [[Engels\|Friedrich Engels]] in the 1800s, refers to an application of [[socialism]] that is scientific in nature, and therefore follows the philosophy of [[marxism]] as science is inseparable from socialism, and socialism is inseparable from science. The phrase rose to prominence to distinguish from [[utopian socialism]], which has become a pejorative used to imply naïveté.

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	=== Marxism ===		=== Marxism ===
	<blockquote>''See main article: [[Marxism]]''</blockquote>Marxism is a philosophical and economical theory that forms an ideology. [[Lenin]] synthesized it to three fundamental components<ref name=":0">https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1913/mar/x01.htm</ref>:		<blockquote>''See main article: [[Marxism]]''</blockquote>Marxism is a philosophical and economical theory that forms an ideology. [[Lenin]] synthesized it to three fundamental components:<ref name=":0">{{Citation\|author=Vladimir Lenin\|year=1913\|title=The Three Sources and Three Component Parts of Marxism\|title-url=https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1913/mar/x01.htm}}</ref>

	==== Philosophy ====		==== Philosophy ====
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	== Utopian socialism ==		== Utopian socialism ==
	<blockquote>''See main article: [[Utopian socialism\|Utopian Socialism]]''</blockquote>Scientific socialism is in [[contradiction]] with utopian socialism. If ~~[[utopian~~ socialism~~]] did not exist~~, then ~~we would only speak of socialism.~~		<blockquote>''See main article: [[Utopian socialism\|Utopian Socialism]]''</blockquote>Scientific socialism is in [[contradiction]] with utopian socialism. If there is scientific socialism, which is materialist, then there must be an [[Idealism\|idealist]] counterpart, which we find in utopian socialism.

	~~Utopian socialists where the first socialists, and some still exist today as the word has taken a larger meaning. Utopian socialists are~~ [[Idealism\|~~idealists~~]] ~~; they believe that ideas create matter and that achieving~~ socialism ~~only requires everyone to have the right ideas~~.

	~~As such their struggle is shallow in nature. Some of~~ the ~~early utopian~~ socialists, ~~for example, believed that if they created more efficient factories, traditional factory owners would be put out of business~~ and the ~~workers would be emancipated~~. Or that ~~perhaps if they created alternative cities where the workers would not be exploited, they could convince the bourgeoisie~~ that ~~it was not necessary~~ to ~~exploit their workers~~.		Utopian socialists where the first socialists, and some still exist today as the word has taken a larger meaning. Utopian socialists are idealists; they believe that ideas create matter and that achieving socialism only requires everyone to have the right ideas.

	~~They tested these ideas and found~~ that they ~~did not work~~, ~~but~~ put ~~the blame on~~ the workers ~~themselves or,~~ as ~~they were idealists~~, ~~on God: if~~ they ~~are not able to change~~ the ~~world with their ideas, then~~ it ~~must be because the world is~~ not ~~yet ready for them, and so it must be God that prevents~~ their ~~ideas from flourishing~~.		As such their struggle is shallow in nature. Some of the early utopian socialists, for example, believed that if they created more efficient factories, traditional factory owners would be put out of business and the workers would be emancipated. Or that perhaps if they created whole cities (such as [[Robert Owen]]) where workers would not be exploited, they could convince the bourgeoisie that it was not necessary to exploit their workers.

	~~Utopian socialists failed because as much~~ as they ~~rejected capitalism~~ on ~~moral grounds,~~ they ~~did~~ not ~~understand~~ the ~~underlying mechanics that drove it and made~~ it the ~~dominant mode of production in society. They did~~ not ~~understand marxism~~ and ~~its three components,~~ which ~~form scientific socialism~~.		They tested these ideas and found that they did not work, but put the blame on the workers themselves or, as they were idealists, on God: if they are not able to change the world with their ideas, then it must be because the world is not yet ready for them, and so it must be God (which can be understood as the universe) that prevents their ideas from flourishing.

	~~Idealists will ultimately justify their philosophy by arguing in favour of a higher power. For this example we pick the Abrahamic God, but this can work in any religion (be it monotheist, polytheist~~, ~~or even animist). God is non-falsifiable (it is impossible to prove God does~~ not ~~exist), requires no burden of proof (everyone knows God exists, as religions exist everywhere in~~ the ~~world),~~ and ~~more importantly: belief in God does not require any research be~~ made in ~~those two aspects~~. ~~Here it becomes apparent that idealism is~~ not scientific ~~-- it is in fact opposed to science and it is inseparable from religion~~.		Utopian socialists failed because as much as they rejected capitalism on moral grounds, they did not understand the underlying mechanics that drove it and made it the dominant mode of production in society. They did not understand marxism and its three components which form scientific socialism.

	== References ==		== References ==
	<references />		<references />
	[[Category:Marxism]]		[[Category:Marxism]]

Wisconcom: Removed misplaced and inappropriate quote.

2022-08-24T07:48:33Z

Removed misplaced and inappropriate quote.

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	::''Scientific theories are judged by the coherence they lend to our natural experience and the simplicity with which they do so. The grand principal of the heavens balances on the razor's edge of truth''		::

	::~~— Commissioner Pravin Lal, "Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri" 1999.~~		::

	'''Scientific socialism''', a term popularized by [[Engels\|Friedrich Engels]] in the 1800s, refers to an application of [[socialism]] that is scientific in nature, and therefore follows the philosophy of [[marxism]] as science is inseparable from socialism, and socialism is inseparable from science. The phrase rose to prominence to distinguish from [[utopian socialism]], which has become a pejorative used to imply naïveté.		'''Scientific socialism''', a term popularized by [[Engels\|Friedrich Engels]] in the 1800s, refers to an application of [[socialism]] that is scientific in nature, and therefore follows the philosophy of [[marxism]] as science is inseparable from socialism, and socialism is inseparable from science. The phrase rose to prominence to distinguish from [[utopian socialism]], which has become a pejorative used to imply naïveté.

Wisconcom: Added category.

2022-08-04T18:06:34Z

Added category.

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	== References ==		== References ==
	<references />		<references />
			[[Category:Marxism]]

Deogeo: Added opening quote.

2022-08-04T08:27:43Z

Added opening quote.

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:27, 4 August 2022
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			::''Scientific theories are judged by the coherence they lend to our natural experience and the simplicity with which they do so. The grand principal of the heavens balances on the razor's edge of truth''

			::— Commissioner Pravin Lal, "Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri" 1999.

	'''Scientific socialism''', a term popularized by [[Engels\|Friedrich Engels]] in the 1800s, refers to an application of [[socialism]] that is scientific in nature, and therefore follows the philosophy of [[marxism]] as science is inseparable from socialism, and socialism is inseparable from science. The phrase rose to prominence to distinguish from [[utopian socialism]], which has become a pejorative used to imply naïveté.		'''Scientific socialism''', a term popularized by [[Engels\|Friedrich Engels]] in the 1800s, refers to an application of [[socialism]] that is scientific in nature, and therefore follows the philosophy of [[marxism]] as science is inseparable from socialism, and socialism is inseparable from science. The phrase rose to prominence to distinguish from [[utopian socialism]], which has become a pejorative used to imply naïveté.

Wisconcom at 18:15, 25 July 2022

2022-07-25T18:15:37Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:15, 25 July 2022
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	=== Marxism ===		=== Marxism ===
	<blockquote>''~~Main~~ article: [[Marxism]]''</blockquote>Marxism is a philosophical and economical theory that forms an ideology. [[Lenin]] synthesized it to three fundamental components<ref name=":0">https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1913/mar/x01.htm</ref>:		<blockquote>''See main article: [[Marxism]]''</blockquote>Marxism is a philosophical and economical theory that forms an ideology. [[Lenin]] synthesized it to three fundamental components<ref name=":0">https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1913/mar/x01.htm</ref>:

	==== Philosophy ====		==== Philosophy ====
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	== Utopian socialism ==		== Utopian socialism ==
	Scientific socialism is in [[contradiction]] with utopian socialism. If [[utopian socialism]] did not exist, then we would only speak of socialism.		<blockquote>''See main article: [[Utopian socialism\|Utopian Socialism]]''</blockquote>Scientific socialism is in [[contradiction]] with utopian socialism. If [[utopian socialism]] did not exist, then we would only speak of socialism.

	Utopian socialists where the first socialists, and some still exist today as the word has taken a larger meaning. Utopian socialists are [[Idealism\|idealists]] ; they believe that ideas create matter and that achieving socialism only requires everyone to have the right ideas.		Utopian socialists where the first socialists, and some still exist today as the word has taken a larger meaning. Utopian socialists are [[Idealism\|idealists]] ; they believe that ideas create matter and that achieving socialism only requires everyone to have the right ideas.